Lemondrop

If you're reading this, you've probably, at some point, had a job. But have you ever been a boss? If so, you probably know that just as you whined about your prior bosses, someone working for you probably thinks you stink.

But everyone can change! So, we asked Professor Robert Sutton, author of "Good Boss, Bad Boss: How to Be the Best and Learn From the Worst," to help us explore more about what makes a woman great as an office leader. He spoke with Lemondrop by phone shortly before his book's recent debut on the NY Times bestseller list.

Lemondrop: You have many examples in your book where a boss thinks she's sparkling and perfect, while the people who work for her think she's awful. What do you do if you suspect you might fit the profile above?
Robert Sutton: To me, the first thing you can do is to figure out who a trusted person is to give you feedback on how you're doing thing. A trusted mentor who is slightly outside of the environment is important for this. Bill Campbell is a mentor to the stars, has been CEO of Intuit -- he has his biggest impact in coaching people to be more effective executives.

A good example? Bill is on Apple's Board, and a lot of people believe that Steve Jobs, who has an infamous temper and used to be out of control, has calmed down because Bill has spent a lot of time talking with him about personal issues.

Do you think there's any major difference between men and women as bosses?
Gender research shows that female or male bosses are pretty similar, but the real difference lies in the way they're perceived. We were originally going to name the book "Top Dog on a Tight Rope," because it's about the balancing act between humanity and performance, between pushing hard and letting people go at their own pace ... but it's different for women. My wife, who is a long- time female boss, pointed out that for women there's a very narrow dividing line between being seen as a bitch or a doormat. She pointed out that for women it's a tightrope, but men get a balance beam, with much more operating room. It's a lot harder to fall off the wider balance beam. Essentially, female bosses have harder jobs.


Is there any right way to act, knowing that?
The advice I give is, if you can't do the balancing act, it's better to be a bitch than a doormat. The reason is, at least you're seen as competent. Incompetence is worse. If you're not sure, be a little meaner.

On a different tack, you also talk a lot about empathy. When you're a leader, how do you gauge how much is too much? When do you hit the right level of understanding and when do you become someone's mother?
There's a difference between listening and understanding other people's perspectives for a constructive argument. When you're in a position of authority over other people, there's got to be a point where you take responsibility for the decision and act like you're in charge. There's a difference in understanding how you come across, and in actually being their friend.

A good example is in my book, with a drawing, of a balancing act between love and money. There's a Chairman, David Kelley, of Ideo, an innovation firm. He talks about this openly. He says there's times where I'll push someone very hard -- it's a consulting firm, there's tough things we've got to do and on deadline. Then there's other times where he says he'll do "the love thing," allowing people to do pro bono work and interesting projects, sending people home at 1 pm, because they look unhappy, all things that are signs of love. He says he puts the love in the bank so he can burn it up later for "the money thing." To me, that's the correct managerial instinct.

A good boss knows when he or she is pissing off other people. The boss has made the decision that it's time to press the money or performance side of the equation. Sometimes, you just need to -- it's like in a music studio. Musicians and rentals cost money, so you can only screw around so much. Sometimes you just need to get it done.

You also created the "11 Commandments" for Wise Bosses, including my favorite: "Do not treat others as if they are idiots." Your delineation between wise and smart is really interesting.
Research by psychologists and philosophers show smart is about what you know, and wisdom is about knowing what you DON'T know. The way you convince people you're smart is by talking, making statements, giving quick answers. For a wise person, it's more about listening and asking questions.

Finding out how to help solve their problem, instead of just knowing the answer?
Yes. The Institute for the Future says, "Smart people have strong opinions, strongly held. Wise people have strong opinions, weakly held," so they're able to listen and be convinced, and have the courage to admit that you might be wrong. It's the sense to be open. Having the courage to act and humility to learn from people around you. Good bosses learn from this.

Anne Mulcahey, took over as CEO at Xerox. She admitted that she never had a background in finance. She had the finance department tutor her for an hour every afternoon. That notion of confidence and humility goes far. For young people this is an especially difficult thing. There are the ones with the overconfident swagger, and the brightest ones are frequently so self-deprecating it's ridiculous. You need moderate confidence and moderate openness.

In your last book, "The No Asshole Rule" you pretty much covered the map of how NOT to be. In brief, what are your very top characteristics of a good boss?
I'd say being "perfectly assertive" is the goal of being a great boss. Push in a fairly hard way in a way that doesn't make you come off as a jerk. It takes the combination of understanding the emotions of the people in front of you AND understanding what it takes to get things done. Some need to be pushed hard because they'll screw up without it, but other times it's too much. Also, being self-aware is important, so you understand what it feels like to work for you. It's not trivial -- this is really hard for most people.

If you're on the other end, as an assistant or lower-ranking employee, if you see that your boss has none of these qualities and does not have your back, what would you suggest?
First thing, see if you have an exit option. When the economy improves and people have more options, there's going to be a lot of shocked employers whose employees say goodbye. Short term, you can sit down and explain and tell them how you feel.

There are some people you can tell before you do it that you'll get in more trouble than it's worth, like if your boss is a raging narcissist. You can also find supportive friends and coworkers. Finally, learn the fine art of not giving a shit, also known as "emotional distancing." We all get trapped in situations we have to endure for a while and we just need to distance ourselves from it to survive.

True. Part of humanity is being humane to yourself.
Exactly. It's like the oxygen mask on the plane analogy. Before you can take care of anybody else, you must put on your own mask first. You have to look after yourself or you're useless to everyone else, including yourself. This applies to employees and employers.


Stephanie Jo Klein works in the music business for the legendary New Music Seminar and is also a New York–based freelance writer whose byline has appeared in the New York Post, Glamour, TV Guide, Fortune Small Business and on Shape.com. She has been the boss a few times, and is still a work in progress.


How about you, dear readers? Have you ever had a favorite boss -- or one you still have a voodoo doll of? And, what kind of supervisor would you be? (Bwah-ha-ha ...)

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