Lucy Meadmore: Like a Virgin...
Melani Robinson: Is He Toy Worthy? Looking for Mr. Goodvibe
Wedding season is upon us, which means a few things: Much of my drug money will go to stays in quaint B&Bs with white tents in the backyard, I will have my annual argument with airport security about whether or not an engraved cake knife is a weapon, and several of my girlfriends will get engaged. Why? Because nothing makes a couple realize they want to grow old together like watching other people Hoover up all the presents and tax breaks.
I'm kidding, of course! Some of my friends are in committed relationships and really, legitimately want to marry their boyfriends ... SO BAD. Bad enough that they'll drop hints, make threats and whip up chicken recipes from women's magazines that border on Wiccan spells.
But not so much that they'll ask for it themselves.
Which, frankly, I don't get. Every year around this time, I read a handful of articles about women proposing, whether offhandedly or elaborately with Jumbotrons / flash mobs / "mangagement rings." These articles are always written like they're about a dog walking on its hind legs. Ladies ... asking dudes? What's next, marriage by robots???
Here at Lemondrop, we recently wrote about a female valedictorian proposing to her boyfriend during her graduation speech. Despite the fact that the couple had been together for a very long time and this was clearly an accomplished woman doing the asking, some of our commenters were less than charmed.
"I don't care what century we're in," posted a user named "Lech." "[L]et the man propose! If he wants you, he will be very eager to do so." True, Lech is (ostensibly) a guy. But even the lesbian-separatist gila monsters commenting on Jezebel were pretty split when the site posted a poll back in '08. While most of their readers were "undecided," only 21 percent of women said they would consider proposing to a man, compared to 30 percent who said they'd never consider it.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given that weddings are all about tradition. Who loves tradition more than traditionalists? But even when I asked men and women I consider to be almost dangerously liberal if the woman ought to propose, they all clutched their pearls at once.
"It's THAT sad for the woman to propose?" I mass-emailed.
A work friend sort of summed up the general sentiment of the female response when she replied, "No, not sad, but weird." My high school pal went a step further when she called lady proposals "effed and desperate." (Form an opinion, high school pal!) Even a female friend who's in a gay relationship remarked, "Since I'm the more 'femme' partner, I fully believe that were we to get married, my girlfriend would have to do the asking and ring-buying."
Really? Really, you lunatics?
True, a few of the guys I asked claimed they'd would be "flattered" if a lady proposed, but I have trouble buying that old line. Particularly because one guy admitted that since most guys think the onus is still on them to do the asking, a guy who doesn't probably isn't totally sold on marriage.
The issue at heart seems to be that even the unconventional LIKE the traditionalism of marriage. (OK, people who are unconventional enough to vote for Obama but still believe in state-regulated monogamy, and women who demand equality and respect, but also want a self-programming coffee maker. You know, like Beyoncé.) And tradition dictates that a guy's decision to marry is a hallmark of a man's maturity and a woman's desirability.
In short? If a guy's not proposing, he's either not grown up enough, or you're not good enough.
In my opinion, it's one thing if you're in a committed relationship and marriage isn't important to you. Things become problematic when we still think of a guy's asking us to marry him as proof that we're worthy of being asked. It's that kind of "if you marry me, you validate me" logic that dissuades me from thinking that some women are in it for anything other than the blood diamonds and dangerous cake knives.
Look, I don't know anything about marriage or proposals. I'm a secular humanist with health insurance and ring-non-conducive manhands. And I'm totally happy for / respectful of my girlfriends who do want to lock it down with a dude. I just think they should be able to arrange it in a way that engenders a sense of equality from the get-go, and I'm disturbed by the number of women who are willing to admit that asking a guy to marry you is to sacrifice the litmus test of whether he actually likes you like that. Shouldn't you kind of know?
Thankfully, Lo, a young Lemondrop contributor and born romantic, was unapologetic about her willingness to ask a dude to marry her: "Yes, I would. And f**k no, it's not sad. SERIOUSLY, 2010!"
Lo, I sincerely hope you're the future.
Think you can have a double standard for marriage proposals and still be a feminist? Explain your nutty logic in the comments.
More Untraditional Marriage Views on Lemondrop:
+ A Break With Tradition -- I Didn't Want My Dad to Give Me Away
+ "I Got Pregnant While I Was Engaged"
+ Why I Vote We Abolish "Husband" and "Wife"
Comments:
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Saturday 23 October
By Radical Fem
Awesome article!! I really love seeing this from other women. Kudos!! My one small qualm-voting for Obama was not exactly unconventional. Supporting the Socialist Party is unconventional. Writing in a name not on the ballot is unconventional.
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Monday 29 November
By Sarah
Generally I don't comment on these articles but I saw this and just had to post. User "Erin," your analogy comparing a proposal to dancing partners is flawed in NUMEROUS ways - but, in that sense, actually does send a perfectly good message.
In dancing, a man traditionally leads, and most of the time it has to do with the fact that he is taller, that he is stronger, or other physical attributes. But it does not imply that the woman is ever INCAPABLE of leading. In fact, in certain situations (if she is stronger than the man, taller than the man, etc.) it would be better for the dance routine as a whole if she did lead.
So in the end, what we have is that as a TRADITION the man usually leads - but this does not mean that the woman should never/could never have the opportunity to do the same. It ends up having to do ENTIRELY with the two people who are dancing, and what works best for them. And I think, in the ends, that's how proposals should be - subject to the desires of the two people involved, and no one should judge them for that.
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Friday 05 November
By Lady
I was going to propose to my boyfriend, with a watch I had picked out. However a conversation earlier in the week made me think he wasn't quite ready so I gave him the watch as an engagement present instead. Imagine my surprise when he asked me to marry him the next day...
I also didn't get a ring til around 3 months after the engagement, and the only reason it's a giant sparkly diamond is that the diamond belonged to his grandmother.
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Friday 17 December
By Naomi
I not only would propose to a man, I did. He accepted. The marriage isn't still going, but it lasted ten years, which isn't half bad these days. And neither of us felt it especially bizarre that I was the one who did the asking... I was just the one who got around to deciding to bring up the subject first. Half the time, I think the woman brings up the subject first anyway, it's just that she usually does it by beating around the bush hoping she can nudge him into saying it in so many words. I preferred to just say it, and I think he was pretty pleased with that.
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Friday 15 April
By Sarah
I cam from a family where equality was emphasized in relationships. It only seems logical that if you want to get married that badly and you have been with the person long enough that you feel they are the one and you are in a situation to do so. Pop! the question. I'm tired of seeing women whine, oh he won't propose. Do it yourself! The tradition is a waste of time. My mother proposed to my father and they never looked back. They both hyphenated their names too because the last name change is sexist. My parent's flip flopped with who stayed home with the kids. MY mother got the first 5 years with one and my father the other and our family is better of for it. Gender roles create the issues where people whine. Men complain about women using them for their money but then reaffirm it by paying for meals on 1st-potentially 5th dates and VALENTINES day, The sexist circle is really annoying.
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Friday 19 August
By Lanie
It all depends on the dynamic of the couple. Some men would feel emasculated if they were on the receiving end of a marriage proposal. And if your guy happens to fall into this category, he's perfectly entitled to his own feelings. On the other hand, there are some couples who embrace non-traditional "gender roles" or a healthy mix of traditional/non-traditional. By the time a couple is considering marriage, I would hope that each partner knows the other well enough to predict his/her response to a proposal. Quite frankly, if you're not 100% sure how your guy feels about you/marriage/gender roles, etc., you probably aren't ready to marry him regardless of who does the asking.
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