By Kate Ashford @HerTwoCents.Have you ever had a relationship fail because he routinely failed to pick up the check? Had no trouble talking dirty, but couldn't come clean about your finances? Or, as a single girl, had an unerring tendency to fall for the help?
As one writer puts it in the anthology of essays, "The Secret Currency of Love: The Unabashed Truth About Women, Money, and Relationships:"
"It's always been this way. I like men who aren't flashy. Men who work with their hands. Men who prefer pick-ups to Porsches. There I'll be, at a hoity-toity event filled with powerful, wildly attractive potential mates -- and inevitably I'll gravitate toward the guy pouring drinks and shlepping dishes."
She's just one of the many smart, savvy female writers who dish -- pretty intimately -- in the book about money and the role it's played in their relationships. Take, for instance, Marnie Hanel's story of scraping by in London while realizing that her wealthy boyfriend's cleaning lady made more per hour than she did. Or Marisa Belger's tale of near-death marriage: They loved each other wildly, but it almost ended when, one month, they couldn't pay their electricity bill.
The book also wades into the complicated web of money and parents, as in Amy Sohn's essay about her father's cheapskate ways -- and how she finds herself growing up to be a tightwad herself. Oh, the horror.
Now that it's out in (money-saving) paperback, we sat down with the book's editor, Hilary Black, to chat about the last relationship taboo: love and money.
LD: Why put this book together?
Hilary Black: The book actually came from my own personal experience a couple of years ago. I was dating a guy who was very wealthy, and when we broke up a number of my friends told me I was crazy. The people who were saying this were independent career women who publicly would never advocate marrying for money, but they thought I was making a mistake. It got me thinking: Many people have much more complicated relationships with money than they let on initially.
The women in it were really honest-sometimes painfully so. Did you have any trouble convincing them to lay it all out there?
A lot of people came to me once I decided to put this book together, and they had these great stories, but a lot of them wouldn't go on the record about it. It was one thing to tell it to me, but it was another thing to say it publicly. I had a writer who wrote a whole essay for me about money and friendship. It was basically about two women who'd grown up together and they'd planned to save the world. This woman became a writer, but the friend ended up marrying a very rich guy and had summer houses and nannies, and she felt very complicated about how the writer went on to fulfill her dreams. In the end, she pulled the story. She said I absolutely couldn't publish it, because it could end the friendship. It's fascinating the way money can be a relationship-ender.
How is it that women walk down the aisle without ever having addressed money differences?
I think a lot of people fall for the Prince Charming myth. It's the way a lot of women were raised. Women fall for this romantic notion of being swept away on a white horse by the person with whom they have the most chemistry, but a lifelong
commitment is very serious and involves a lot more than moonlight and roses. I think it's common for a lot of women who get as far as their wedding day and the honeymoon and don't always evaluate the man they're with from a perspective other than the fairy tale. Several women in the book nearly ended marriages over money. Why is it such a deal-breaker?
I think money is really a proxy for control and power, and it puts into very sharp relief the basic divisions between who has control and who has power. They say money and sex are the two biggest taboos. Money is one of those things that brings out self-interest and selfishness. It brings out conflict. It becomes a subject of very, very deep rancor.
How are money and sex related?
Both money and sex are proxies for control and power. The possessor of more money and more sex has more control in the relationship, and pretending otherwise is very naïve. A friend was just telling me that he's always been the primary breadwinner in his relationship, and now his wife makes more than he does, and it makes him feel powerless. I think the two are intricately intertwined and to pretend otherwise is naïve.
Why is money such a powerful thing in our lives?
In practical terms, money symbolizes so much for so many people. If you really break it down, it isn't about how much you get out of the cash machine. It's about our sense of professional accomplishment and it's tied up in our self esteem. Having it or not having it says a lot about lifestyle, about identity, about who you are in society, and I think that when couples find themselves across a divide on this issue, it's often enough to break them apart.
What did you learn, in editing these essays?
Talking about money and talking about it early on is critical. There's been a long tradition of not talking about money and I think that's been dangerous. It's important to get these things out in the open before you enter into a lifelong commitment. Lucy Kaylin [one of the essay writers] and her husband had married with dramatically different approaches to money. She thought everything was fine and he thought she was haranguing him to death. She realized that she could change the way she acted about money or she could kiss the marriage goodbye. It's extraordinarily important to see where you stand on this issue because it can tear people apart.
So you're saying love doesn't conquer all?
One of the biggest things people fight about is money. The lesson is to really be able to talk about this stuff from the very beginning, not kick it under the rug. Because life is so much more than just simply romance. Helen Fisher wrote a very interesting book called "Why Him? Why Her?" about chemistry. She basically says that kind of wildly-in-love dynamic lasts two to four years. Make sure you're marrying somebody who you're not just wildly in love with but who wants a similar lifestyle. Talk early on about how you want to live together. I'm often asked, 'What's more important, money or love?' And if you don't have it together on money issues, you don't have a chance on the love.
Any warning signs? Should we stay away from the man who, say, never picks up the check?
I think these things are very individual. The way money and love play out is different for every couple. I'm personally somebody who pays bills to the minute, so I'd be very wary of somebody who lets the bills pile up and is very irresponsible with his money. They say it's easier to marry somebody who is more like you, and it's crucial that whatever your values are about money, that they be the same as your potential partner's.
Money seems to be a thread that's with us from childhood. Why is that?
So much about money has to do with upbringing and values and identity. I think that watching the way our parents spend money tends to cut deep, and it goes a long way toward establishing our financial values as adults. There's one other piece that I think provides an interesting example of this observation. Abby Ellin has written this essay in which she talks about struggling against the attraction to men in low-paying professions. She has to reconcile this idea of being attracted to people who don't make a lot of money, because she was brought up to have someone support her.
Do many women, deep down, still want a man to support them?
This stuff runs very, very deep. It's very deeply ingrained culturally that the man is going to come in and provide for them. I think a lot of this who-earns-more, who-earns-less comes from this deep-seated traditional notion of gender when the man is Prince Charming and he provides, and the woman takes care of the home. Now that we're in this post-feminist age, there's a lot of ambivalence. In the past 30 years, the feminists have won this idea of women doing for themselves. Now some women are stuck in the old way of thinking but have been taught growing up the new way of thinking, so they're confused.
Did you have a favorite essay?
I had a really high bar for choosing only essays that I thought were good. But there were a few that do stand out. One was the story of this woman, Jennifer Wolff Perrine, who adopts a child from a couple who can't afford to keep their baby. It was just so moving, and it said so much about class and culture and all the things you're not supposed to talk about, but that exist. I just thought it was so raw and honest.
What do you hope people take from the book?
Even though the life circumstances are very different in all these pieces, what I hope is that you see little bits of yourself in every essay. You see the subtle ways that money plays out in all of our relationships. It's a game-changer.
Want to know if your money style meshes with your partner's? Take this Love and Money Score quiz from CBS Moneywatch and then have your S.O. take it as well.
Kate Ashford is a freelance journalist who writes about personal finance and health (and other things). Without online shopping, she wouldn't own anything. Her work has appeared in Money, Health, and Glamour. For more, check out HerTwoCents.com More Good Stuff on the Web:
The best new fashion trends of 2010 (Marie Claire)
My husband paid off my debts...now am I indebted to him? (The Frisky)
The worst guy ever apologizes (Lemondrop)
A new lesbian site we love! (Lemondrop)












Comments:
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Wednesday 17 February
By papam11
She asked "real women?" Versus what, blow up dolls?
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By dee
I do not believe that staying home is the "old way of thinking" It is a choice, which I feel the movement was about. I stay home with my children because that is what works for us. I feel that the idea was for us to make a choice without being criticized. Aside from that I do agree that being with someone who has the same ideas in terms of money and getting the bills paid is the way to go.
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By pat
Money, sex, and temperature. Many marriages end because of fights over the thermostat. My husband is cold in the morning, warm at night, and I'm the opposite. We finally decided that the cold person has to be wearing shoes and socks, and 3 layers, before turning up the heat.
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By jen
All of these comments indicate the man as the provider. How about when the WOMAN is the SOLE provider. My boyfriend - who at one time I wanted to marry - doesn't work. He sleeps all day. Claims it's 'our' money and a partnership yet I work and then at night - he wants me to be a traditional homemaker - cook, clean, etc. HE controls the sex. Any time I mention either - he flips out. Is there more at play here than what I'm reading?
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Wednesday 17 February
By thomas
Jen - One word :RUN"
Wednesday 17 February
By Kathy M
This is the reason women are brought up to rely on a man's income. When you start a family and have small children the women is biologically more capable of taking care of the home and children. She is gentler with her kids and has more patience, maybe its the estrogen hormone that makes a women like this. She wants to please her husband and tries to be a good cook and keep the house clean. So she can't clone herself and bring in a good paycheck ( I'm a college graduate ) and take care of her children and home which is more important. Maybe this is an archaic way of thinking but there is a fundamental reason for it, it's biological and it keeps harmony in one's life.
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Wednesday 17 February
By Darryl Ehlers
Hi Folks.
I married the same woman three times, I keep the children, now we keep the children. Money should not be power, I gave the books to my wife. If a woman can not handel the responsiblity of handeling books it should be taken away. I believe most women can handel it. When we started we were poor and I look back, poorness is the best time of life, you are surviving and need each other.
To many people have been coddeled, because their parents made it and did not want their children to go through the same. But that is fantasy, The child needs to make for their own and grow up by old school rules. Realitry !!!
Thanks Darryl Ehlers
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By ttrexxx
Ever wonder why there are more female hookers then men...Women have lower principles when it comes to securing wealth. Show me a women who needs money and I'll show you a cheap or expensive date,but a date non the less.Few men will consider this as an option.
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By Keith J. Mohrhoff
The reasons why there are more women prostituting then men are A) fewer women able and willing to pay for companionship, and B) the stigma surrounding it is more than a man can recover from. Our society has a double-standard when it comes to immoral or criminal actions. A woman becomes destitute and resorts to prostitution and society says, "Oh, you poor dear!" If a man commits an immoral or criminal act, society holds it against him. That is why men are given 15 years for statutory rape while women convicted of the same offense are given probation.
Wednesday 17 February
By Heidi
LOL NO that because men cant GIVE IT AWAY
Wednesday 17 February
By Linda Gillespie
I am going through a horrible divorce now with my husband of 12 yrs., but I've known him for 17 yrs. He grew up poor and I grew up more fortunate. We never talked about money. He was the frugal one, not me. When he inherited alot of money from his mothers death 5 yrs. ago, there our problems began. Our pending divorce is now all about the money and the lack of sex we had in the last few years of out marriage. After his inheritance, he became a different person. All of our friends saw it, I didn't. I have lost a man that I love and it's all about the money and sex.
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Wednesday 17 February
By Cat
No No No !!!!!
I went through a lifetime of frustration with women before learning that, sooner or later, it always comes down to the cash.
A woman will give a man oral sex and bark like a dog on demand...........so long as her financial expectations have been met........or more importantly......so long as she has not yet realized that they WILL not be met.
But just as soon as that fact comes home to her....the Cafe is closed.......and she is looking for a better place to be.
End of relationship.
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By Kim
get a grip -- all of you.
money and/or sex?
it's really about self-respect.
Wednesday 17 February
By Lewis
I have money and I can see right through those girls, and I play along for a litttle while, after about a week of dating they all come off with the same thing ( I think I Love You) sure you do..... Its hard to pay the band when your not the one dancing Like to find one good women where money and sex is not number 1 one the list........
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Wednesday 17 February
By S
i'm 20 and my fiance is 22. we have set our date for 2012 so that we can move in together and see how things play out before we are legally bound to each other. i have been one of the women who blows my paychecks on shopping sprees but a reality check hit me and i can control my money so much better. my fiance keeps everything paid for on time. as much as i love him i worry that things like money will get in the way... i'm almost done with my first college degree so i'll be able to get a full time job also. i will never not have a job... seeing people who have been together for so long divorce over issues like money is scary to me. i can only pray that me and him can make it through any issues we come across. any advice?
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Wednesday 17 February
By franksfoil
"Do many women, deep down, still want a man to support them?
This stuff runs very, very deep. It's very deeply ingrained culturally that the man is going to come in and provide for them."----------You know why this is still is issue? In part, because women make only 7/10 of the salary of men, at best. After how many years, my female friends and I are still all underpaid and underemployed. After years of experience and higher education women still are sexually harassed and treated as second-class citizens. Believe me, the equal opportunity laws mean nothing because no one enforces them. I have been to state agencies and federal ones and no one cares. They do a lot of whining about how many thousands of cases that they have and that's about it. Lily Ledbetter act? Don't get me started as to how many people don't care about that. Do you have a $5,000 retainer to get a real attorney when you are being paid as 7/10 of a human being? I didn't think so. That's why finances are still important to many women.
Reply
Wednesday 17 February
By Jen
Hey ladies!
We are raising those (boys) Men!. Reality check! those guys are your brother and cousins and friends we grew up with. We make our bed...........
Reply
Thursday 18 February
By JW
Jen,
I say that all the time! You are one smart lady
Wednesday 17 February
By Nikki
I agree and disagree with that. I have an older friend who raised all her children in the same manner, she has seven of them. Most of them turned out decent and went to collage but one or two ended up as drug attics and getting into stuff they shouldn't be in. We can only TEACH our children. Once they are grown it is then up to them to decide if they wish to listen to those lessons or not.
Wednesday 17 February
By Mark
I have to admit that I find all this self-involvement of women--especially from the ones who claim to care about everyone but themselves--extraordinarily tiresome and lacking in credibility. Life is not supposed to be easy, you have to work at it, make compromises. But it is always the men who required to do it. Why do we have so many books from women who only see their own side? You have all these magazines tailored to women's woes, the television media portraying them as "victims," and newpaper columnists giving out "advice" to "confused" women tailored to destroy relationships.
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