Here's the thing -- on paper, I'm actually one of those Nice Guys you often hear and/or read about. I'm uncomfortable to the point of nausea at the idea of being a jerk to women in order to manipulate them into sleeping with me. I do everything in my power to make a girl I'm interested in comfortable and happy, and I refrain from any remotely creepy or suggestive behavior.So, although I actually do qualify as one of the Nice Guys, there's a paradox -- there's no such thing.
The Nice Guy question had always vexed me, because I'm Nice -- but really only in comparison to some of these hammers and nails I see in bars, aggressively hitting on you women. (I really don't know how you all deal with it.) Then it struck me one night while I was being Nice to a girl -- I want to sleep with her just as much as that a-hole over there does. Which makes me just as much of a creep.
Let me explain.
Look -- you know how you and every one of your friends dated a worthless waste of internal organs at some point in your life? That's because every single one of us is at least a little bit of a worthless waste of internal organs. You guys aren't strictly all a bunch of Ma Teresa's and church mice, either. But hey -- guys aren't all Lloyd Dobler or the Antichrist. There's a spectrum for these things -- and that's good.
The sooner you accept that most guys are --- like me -- nice guys and metaphorical-leather-jacket wearing sacks of crap, the sooner you'll find a guy who's a good balance of the two.
Look, I Really AM One of the Nice Guys
I love talking and listening! I do. And I especially love talking and listening to women. I love language and stories and I love talking about emotions and feelings. Why? Oh, I don't know, perhaps my body's making too much estrogen, or maybe it's because I have sisters and nieces and a mom I love. I've been told I'm utterly guileless! Hear that? Guile-free, ladies!
Wait, No -- I'm the Worst
Nice Guys, like perverts and douchebags and Mormons, also want to get down. Yes, I just spent 45 minutes talking to you about the show "Degrassi: The Next Generation," but I still want to take your bra off. Oh, and I've never actually seen "Degrassi!"
Make no mistake -- we sweet, self-deprecating, talky, emotionally available and thoughtful types want sex, too. Nice Guys want you bad and, just like the a-hole, we're ready to compromise ourselves in order to get what we want. How bad? "Degrassi" bad.
Wait, No, Don't Go -- I'm Nice
I honestly want to get to know who you really are. You want to talk about heartbreak or longing or your fear of death? Done. I'll talk to you for hours about almost anything. If there's a house party and there are dudes on a couch in front of a giant TV and women in a kitchen with a giant bottle of wine, I'll be in the kitchen. Why? Because you women are baffling, exotic creatures and just listening to you talk thrills me to no end. I'm constantly marveling at how much more interesting you are then men. Why do you even like us??
Oh, Wait, Nope, I'm Still a Creep
While enjoying your company and conversation, I will also have a parallel narrative running in my head in which you tell me you want to ball up your panties and shove them in my mouth. I will entertain both the real you and the Hopefully You in my head, and by our second or third drink, you and I will be married in my insane freakshow of a mind. If by drink number four you don't give me your number or generally grow less enthralled with my presence, I will go home alone and have an extremely depressing masturbatory moment involving the thought of you debasing me horribly in some way. I'll want to cry myself to sleep, but won't be able to because I'll pass out.
In Sum, I'm Actually Just a Normal Dude. Sorry, Ladies!
So I'm a bit of a merman, but it doesn't mean I'm not a calculating, diabolical bastard-face. Now just because most of my calculations end in failure doesn't diminish the fact that I am, much like the intentional a-hole who "negs" chicks, engaged in some form of pathology that I'm hoping will get you to make out with me.
But here's the thing -- all of my personality traits -- the self-deprecation, the willingness to share my actual feelings, the sweet temperament -- they're not manufactured. They're real. But they also conveniently help get me what I want. See? It's complicated.
I don't do it for this purpose, but I do realize that my ability to listen and synthesize information may also get me a shot at having you sweat on me later. See, we all work with what we've got. A Nice Guy's guilelessness? Still his guile.
[Redacted] writes for Lemondrop when he's not breaking fragile hearts and avoiding Victorian diseases all over the Eastern seaboard. You can send him hate mail and love letters here.













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Wednesday 23 December
By Julie
Ok, 2 comments for you.
1. I find men way more fascinating than women. Most women tend to be airheads who want to talk about shopping, or men. I rarely have fulfilling conversations with them. Men usually talk about less air-headed topics (technology, for instance), at least when conversing with me. So it's interesting that you find women interesting to talk to.
2. Who wants a guy that DOESN'T Want to sleep with you? The ultimate nice guy is nice to you in non-sexual situations, but aggressive in bed. I want a guy who talks to me all day and fucks me all night. What girl doesn't? That doesn't make you less of a nice guy.
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Tuesday 29 December
By Paladin
Many of the people here are living in a fantasy world. Julie, you're dead right: Men are far more interesting to talk to. The reason is that, generally speaking (note: If some here don't understand that there are differences among groups as well as within them, please take your usual two stupid pills and don't call me in the morning . . . or ever), women are about feelings whereas men are about ideas. Just try discussing politics, religion, philosophy or social issues with both sexes, and, if you have depth yourself, you'll realizes that men have far more depth; they also have far more knowledge in those areas. There are exceptions, of course, such as the lady in my life. But, generally speaking, it's true.
Only airheads don't realize the above.
Tuesday 29 December
By Paladin
And thank you for your comments, Julie. I suppose my post was very "male," in that it was blunt and spared no feelings. It also was perhaps unnecessarily snotty. However, I'm not as much of a curmudgeon as it might lead a person to believe. It's just that I tire of the characteristic lies of the age — of its ideological constraints — one of which is evident in the compulsion people have to bristle at any suggestion that there are differences among groups and that a group can have negative qualities (and every group does have some).
At the end of the day, we're not all born the same; this, combined with the different cultural norms different groups may be subject to, can cause them to be quite different from one another.
The reality is that groups have different characteristic strengths and weaknesses, different proclivities, and it does us no good to deny this truth.
And don't worry about starting a big debate. We need more of them, as big debates are how we settle big issues. And, if the discourse is honest, an added bonus is that we'll be settling them the right way.
Happy New Year.
Wednesday 30 December
By Alisia
Juile.
What kind of women do you hang out with?
I mean honestly, not all women are like that. I'm a girl, and I'm not some airhead who talks about shoes and drools over men.
Ha, I don't even talk about the latest fashions or whatever some girls talk about.
I enjoy talking about debating topics and issues like in our economy or events around the world. About history and science, religion and God. Things that I think any normal person would talk about.
Maybe I just not a girly girl? Either way, it's kind of a disappointment you don't exchange between both sexes.
Men can sometimes only bring up certain topics just so they can get into your pants. At least that's what I've seen and heard. And not all men have interesting things to say. Some men are too self centered and only talk about themselves and can be boring. I rather talk to a woman about boy-trouble than a man whose too cocky.
Anyways, your comment makes it sound like you think all women are ditzy females with nothing better to do than to talk about shoes and go crazy over men.
Saturday 09 January
By Mark
Ok , I think you both come up a little short. I find intelligent women very interesting and intreging when I talk about certain topics and I want to get a feminine perspective. on things. Yes a thoughtful woman is intriguing. Of course this requires an open mind, and the ability to accept that my perspective is not always correct. I've learned much this way. However, like you I am really turned off by the air head or even worse the all too common narrow minded introspective view.
And I like male conversation with intelligent friends, including enjoying a lighter moment with male friends indulging in stupid stereotypical male rantings that are understood to be sarcastic, at least by the more intelligent members. It tends to relieve tensions and pent up frustrations.
But I always had some distrust of men or women that have trouble relating to their own gender. There are interesting men and women and for some reason you both seem to have closed your minds to them. And Julie, there are certain male conversation that you really aren't meant to be a part of. That sarcastic ranting. For instance, when a group of guys are gathered around the barbeque grill. It’s the primeval hearth thing and it's that ranting I mentioned above. If you are there Julie, trust me the conversation has changed and sometimes the guys find it annoying but are too polite to let on. Am I am sure there are times the ladies are in there own conversations. I would feel like a voyeuristic trespasser if I were in on those conversations. The ladies need their girl time too. It's healthy and also probably relieves stress. I’ve always felt that a woman or man that can’t relate with their own gender has some kind of issue relating with the opposite gender.
Wednesday 03 February
By jedigirl3972
Lmao! I agree with you 100% I am a woman, and they still get on my nerves. I dont want to hear about so-and-so's baby daddy, or who stole whos boyfriend. I would much rather talk about something like science, movies, or something that doesnt involve drama and misery.
Wednesday 23 December
By TA
Redacted...I'm also the "nice guy" you speak of...and very much dislike aforementioned, and overly aggressive, d-bag in the leather coat. And yes, women are much more interesting than their male counterparts.
Julie...would it be d-bagish of me to say your post was super sexy and I hope we cross paths at some point soon (ie - tonight)??
Reply
Wednesday 23 December
By Luke Fitzwilliam
Julie,
Girls who rag on other girls are such a cliche...and I find that they usually do so just to look cool to men, whether they like it or not. Try having a real conversation with another girl and you'll find that they are just as interesting as your guy friends, and just as interesting as you think you are. Of course, if you're not too busy getting f-ed.
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Thursday 24 December
By Julie
I do converse with girls on a regular basis. I promise I talk to both men and women. I notice conversations with women degrade very quickly to nonsense. Even in business environments, as soon as you add another women, the quality of the conversations is lowered. You could argue that I don't know the right women, but I've heard a lot of other women say the same thing--conversations with men are better.
Also, I promise I'm not doing it to look "cool to men". I don't really think I'm all that interesting either. But I do find that with men, I can talk about books without it getting to...wardrobe choices of the heroine. Just one example for you.
Thursday 24 December
By Julie
Also want to point out that I almost always had female best friends. We would talk for hours on end. You know what we talked about? Analyzing and overanlayzing other people (boyfriends, family members, other girls), shopping, more analyzing. If I want to bullshit for hours, I will call a girl yes. If i need to vent and just have someone support me entirely, I will call a girl. If I want an intellectually stimulating conversation, I wouldn't call any girl that I know. Even if we start off with a good topic, it ALWAYS degrades to "I CAN'T WAIT TILL YOU SEE MY NEW SHOES!!!!!111"
Thursday 24 December
By ~S
Luke, you're hot. JK lol Seriously, I hate when other women rag on other women. Men always side each other no matter what and are very secretive. Women always bash each other and want to find some sort of connection at the end of the day. Truth is women need each other and if we embrace each other and appreciate other females we can enjoy womanhood. lol I rather talk to a woman than a man any day. Men interest me but females are more intellectual than physical.
Wednesday 23 December
By DP
I'm a nice guy, but like Julie mentions, that doesn't mean i don't want to have sex with a woman i like. it means I'm respectful of our privacy and don't go around getting high fives telling everyone i scored.
"i got a dream girl in my mind that's the hook, an intellectual, sexual, and still can cook" knaan
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Thursday 24 December
By LJ
'Most women tend to be airheads who want to talk about shopping, or men. I rarely have fulfilling conversations with them.'
Oh honey, you are talking to the wrong people.
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Tuesday 29 December
By MICHELE
AMEN!
Thursday 24 December
By hf
excellent writing, "write" on point.....I think I am a mix of both....depending on the woman in front of me, I shall become "that guy".......
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Friday 25 December
By Gemma
As a girl who was pretty much raised by her four older brothers this article was really reassuring. A guy willing to go "Degrassi" for me just to get in my pants is kinda attractive lol and its good to know that at least one guy likes to hear us talk about our random things in the kitchen instead of showing off our knowledge on True Freshman and the latest person to be scouted.
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Thursday 24 December
By Suzie Q
I agree with every other woman that's commented to say "Who wants a guy who doesn't want to sleep with you?!"
I also think that, sorry dude, you kind of ARE a nice guy- or at least as nice as it gets. Why? Because every "real nice" guy that I've met has used his supposed "niceness" to get people to feel sorry for him (read: and then sleep with him). You, on the other hand, are actually OPEN AND HONEST about your flaws and not constantly pretending to be something you're not. Sorry again, but if there are no real nice guys, you're at least as good as they can get.
Any chance you're free New Years? :D
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Saturday 26 December
By Shannon
well Julie maybe you are just boring if you only want to talk about technology. You can do that in the corner with some IT guys while they drool over us women who are actually GASP! having a good time and go home with us at the end of the night leaving you alone to your tv and your iphone. Seriously? My female friends and I talk about a lot, politics, religion, books, movies, food, wine and yes heaven forbid sometimes men and shoes. I call that well rounded sister not airheaded. A woman should be able to talk about a variety of topics or else she would just be boring no matter what the subject is. I also agree with Luke about you trying to appear cooler to men. They don't see a miser of a woman as cool..just a giant drag who is probably no fun in bed. Besides if your friends lives are sooo trivial why not stop talking to them? Do them a favor.
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Monday 28 December
By Julie
I have no problem finding both men and women to talk to. I'm currently in a relationship, but I have no problem finding men to date. I'm great in bed (as I've been told by the guys who slept with me--and came back to sleep with me even when they had girlfriends because I'm just that good). Yes, some women are well rounded. But I still enjoy discussing topics with men more.
Oh and yes, I like technology, but I'm not one-dimensional. I like many things, and yes, obviously most other women do too. However, when I think back to conversations I've had, I find that the most satisfying ones have been with men.
Tuesday 29 December
By Frederica Bimble
@Shannon: Well said! Yep, me thinks the lady has some self-esteem issues. Also, I'll add that she is most likely quite young and inexperienced and hasn't figured out that "one attracts what one gives out" to the world.